2008
05.10

I sup­pose if you spend as much time as I do behind a com­puter, it’s only a mat­ter of time before some­one does a ‘bet­ter’ job of try­ing to take your cash. You all might be famil­iar of receiv­ing emails from Nige­ria — the famous 419 scam. You know, the ones with the sick or dying uncle or par­ent and they need to trans­fer money to your account?

The Niger­ian Con-Artists and my Cadillac:

Well, in my old blog, I had a story about that where I actu­ally got into an email shout­ing match with one of those Niger­ian scam­mers who was try­ing to buy my old car, and he ended the con­ver­sa­tion by saying:

—– Orig­i­nal Mes­sage —– From: “steven cool” To: “Charles Leo” Sent: Thurs­day, Novem­ber 18, 2004 8:23 PM Sub­ject: Re: Clas­sic 1985 Cadil­lac Fleet­wood Brougham Seville $975
SUCK YOUR MOTHER SWEAT PANT GO TO HELL
FU** YOU


_______________________________________________
Get your free email from http://fastermail.com

Pow­ered by Outblaze

This makes me laugh. I reply again:

LOL. This gets reported to the FBI too. Hope you stick around so when they come to the door you’ll look ready to go to jail. Learn to speak eng­lish you stu­pid f**ker…

“Steven” replies:

DONT MAIL ME AGAIN OR IWILL SENT TO HELL MOTHERF**KER –

Well, at least that was a good time. I’m sure we both shared a few laughs — him call­ing me a ‘sweat pant wear­ing mofo’ and me telling him ‘the FBI is com­ing to lock your a** up.’ How he ever knew I wore sweat pants and worked from home is still the luck­i­est guesses I’ve ever encountered.

The Con-Artist Cam­era Store Outfit:

Flash for­ward to May 2008. My sleep sched­ule is all out of whack again and I’m lay­ing down on the couch about to pass out. My girl­friend was going to take pho­tos this week­end for a com­mu­nion — iron­i­cally for a bunch of Nige­ri­ans (and no I’m not racist, but I do think it is funny.) How­ever, as great of a cam­era as a Canon Rebel XTi is, it doesn’t have an exter­nal flash gun. The rea­son why most peo­ple use flash guns is that they have bet­ter con­trol over light­ing — often being able to avoid the harsh shad­ows and bright spots that most ‘point and shoot’ cam­eras tend to produce.

So I’ve been bid­ing my time, plan­ning to get a decent cam­era of my own for work. I fig­ure, hey it’s a write-off and I really do need a decent one for shoot­ing archi­tec­tural spaces. Lay­ing on the couch, I told her — ‘go order the Canon Speedlite (flash gun) from Son­ic­cam­eras with my card — I was plan­ning on get­ting one anyways.’

Now, Son­ic­cam­eras is this Inter­net cam­era out­fit I found through Google Shop­ping. (Note: I will not do them a plea­sure of link­ing to their web­site here as that only serves to boost their search rank­ings.) The prices were dirt cheap com­pared to every other out­fit out on the Inter­net. From the out­side, it also looks like a very gen­uine store. Plus, they were listed on Google Shop­ping so I guess I assumed it would have been safe.

So she reg­is­ters my email address, pass­word, user­name, and credit card num­ber as I pro­ceed to pass out. A few hours later I wake up and go to check my email — look­ing for the receipt so that I can add it to my busi­ness deduc­tions. The prob­lem is — there’s no receipt — just a con­fir­ma­tion email num­ber with no price listed. It also looks like there’s a dupli­cate email and Out­look flagged it as a poten­tially phish­ing email.

So, the red flag starts to raise a lit­tle. I fig­ure, well I’ll go to their web­site, login there, and print­out my receipt. The prob­lem is, I spend about 15 min­utes dig­ging through their site look­ing for a place I can check my order — just a sim­ple login page and there’s none to be found. The flag starts to get raised higher now. I start to think, ‘well it could just be a shitty web­site’ and I give their toll-free num­ber a call. I get to a direc­tory menu, and get put on hold indef­i­nitely with their ele­va­tor music.

At this point, the red flag is about to fly off the pole. I type ‘son­ic­cam­eras’ into Google and come across pages of peo­ple com­plain­ing that this store is a com­plete scam. I just about lost my soup. They’ve got my email, user­name, pass­word, and busi­ness bank card num­ber. I haven’t felt this humil­i­ated in such a long ‚long time. I had always prided myself in being able to detect when a site or an email was a scam and here I was falling prey to fraud.

Cor­rec­tive Measures:

First thing I did was to check my busi­ness account online. I saw no deduc­tions from my account — but it’s not always updated imme­di­ately. So I had to call them up and con­firm that there wasn’t any activ­ity. They told me that there wasn’t so I went ahead, can­celed my card and had them send me a new one.

Sec­ond mea­sure I took was to change all my pass­words and remove the card num­ber. I gen­er­ally use dif­fer­ent pass­words for dif­fer­ent web­sites, but occa­sion­ally they do over­lap. I wasn’t about to take any chances. The main prob­lem was that I’m reg­is­tered online with about 100+ web­sites — and had to start at the begin­ning one by one. So I just tack­led the most impor­tant ones first and would come back to the list later on.

Third thing I did was to run a ‘WhoIs’ on their domain name. I want to track this mofo down and deliver some pun­ish­ment. The prob­lem I ran into there is that they’re not listed. A few years back, domain name ser­vices started offer­ing ‘pri­vate’ reg­is­tra­tion so that you couldn’t track down infor­ma­tion on the peo­ple that reg­is­tered a web­site. They just hap­pened to have done that.

Fourth was to call up their domain name company/registrar — Godaddy.com. The per­son I get on the phone there has no clue what to do — and he can’t even begin to steer me in the right direc­tion. They have no inter­est what­so­ever about tak­ing cor­rec­tive mea­sures. In his own words, “we’re only respon­si­ble for the domain name. Sorry sir.”

Fifth mea­sure was to con­tact the local FBI office via phone and find out what I could turn up there. I get an agent on the phone and he lis­tens to my story. What he tells me is that I need to go to their Inter­net crimes divi­sion web­site at the Inter­net Crime Com­plaint Cen­ter. He also goes on to say that “unfor­tu­nately, they get so many claims on a daily basis that they can’t keep up. What ends up hap­pen­ing is that they look for a high num­ber of com­plaints regard­ing a spe­cific per­son or out­fit, or they look for a high dol­lar value trans­ac­tion to have occurred in order for them to take notice.”

So that’s just great. I’m already feel­ing like I’ve hit red tape. The bank is not will­ing to do any­thing. The domain name com­pany wants no part of this. The local FBI basi­cally says ‘write this other office and best of luck to you.’

So I start hit­ting the blog­ging com­mu­nity — writ­ing and telling peo­ple that the appro­pri­ate place to file a com­plaint is the FBI’s Inter­net Crime Com­plain Cen­ter and that we need to do this in mass together in order for them to take notice. Let­ters and emails start to come back to me — in par­tic­u­lar this one pretty nice guy named Ger­ald and his web­site www.desertexplorer.us. He goes on to send me a few links (some of which may or not be confirmed):

1) Bet­ter Busi­ness Bureau Link on them

2) Thoughts-of-Dave on Blog­ger (prob­a­bly the most com­pre­hen­sive blog about the topic so far)

3) NY Times arti­cle on their busi­ness practices

4) Infor­ma­tion about the peo­ple (pos­si­bly fam­ily or orga­ni­za­tion behind this)

5) A short post on Cnet

Con­clu­sions:

Is there a con­clu­sion? No. There wont be until they get put out of ‘busi­ness’ or end up in jail.

Sup­pos­edly from what I’ve read, these peo­ple have been doing this under mul­ti­ple names for over 7 years. Some­how, they evade the law and do a good enough job to make it worth their while.

I’m not so much upset about my sit­u­a­tion as I’ve caught it in time. What I am upset about is that oth­ers have been repeat­edly taken by this out­fit and I can’t just sit back idly and let it hap­pen to others.

Is it orga­nized? I would say yes. The indi­vid­u­als oper­at­ing these web­sites have some sort of orga­ni­za­tion. Their web­sites are fairly well laid out on their front-end. The indi­vid­u­als have enough brains to mar­ket their web­sites effec­tively and are will­ing to pay adver­tis­ing in order to have their search engine results ‘opti­mized.’ The reg­is­trant was smart enough to hide his reg­is­tra­tion details. The code behind their site (while gleaned from other cam­era web­sites) is ‘hacked’ fairly well together — it looks bet­ter than 95% of all other mer­chant sites in my opin­ion. Prod­ucts are con­stantly updated (as they have some of the lat­est cam­era equip­ment on there) so there is a def­i­nite inter­est in keep­ing their ‘ball’ rolling.

In a nut­shell, who­ever is run­ning this oper­a­tion is fairly bright with very low moral stan­dards and respect for oth­ers. I’m not a FBI pro­filer, but from what I’ve read about the few times peo­ple actu­ally got into con­tact with them, their ‘employ­ees’ scoff and laugh at the peo­ple they’ve taken. I think that in keep­ing their oper­a­tions up, they’re laugh­ing all the way to the bank with lit­tle repercussions.

They are scum.

I rec­om­mend that any­one that has sub­mit­ted their infor­ma­tion or has been defrauded by them write to the FBI Inter­net Crimes divi­sion imme­di­ately. They need to be taken out.

Update:

It’s been bug­ging me. I don’t like to be taken and when some­one tries to do that, I’m all about revenge (in a peace­ful man­ner of course.) Ear­lier today, I called up the local FBI office again. The agent I got on the phone today was a bit less polite, but did give me an actual phone num­ber to the FBI’s IC3. After a few more phone calls, I man­aged to finally get some­one on the phone who lis­tened to my story for about a 1/2 hour.

She elab­o­rated upon what one of the agents had told me ear­lier — that they receive about 8,000 com­plaints of fraud a month, and that they only have 11 peo­ple on staff to look into all these cases. That’s a really fright­en­ing sta­tis­tic. I mean — we ARE talk­ing about the FBI here… But I insisted that I’m always online, and I haven’t seen a scam like this in a very long time and that it’s really worth pay­ing atten­tion to. She replied that she would make spe­cial note of this par­tic­u­lar situation.

At this point, it is out of my hands and in the rest of the com­mu­nity to take a step for­ward. All I can do is hope for the best.

Feed these posts:
  • Current
  • del.icio.us
  • Digg
  • Facebook
  • Google Bookmarks
  • NewsVine
  • Posterous
  • Propeller
  • Slashdot
  • StumbleUpon
  • Technorati
  • Twitter
  • Yahoo! Buzz
  • RSS
  • email

18 comments so far

Add Your Comment
  1. —–Orig­i­nal Mes­sage—–
    From: Desiree Gaige
    To: xxxxxxxxxx
    Sent: Thu, 22 May 2008 9:29 am
    Sub­ject: RE: Sigma 18-200mm f3.5–6.3 DC OS BEING SOLD AS A KNOCK-OFF AT http://WWW.SONICCAMERAS.COM

    Thank you for choos­ing Sigma products.

    Let me start off by apol­o­giz­ing for the extreme incon­ve­nience you have experienced.

    They are cer­tainly not an autho­rized dealer of Sigma prod­ucts and unfor­tu­nately we do not know where they get their prod­uct from.

    Unfor­tu­nately with the inter­net there are a lot of com­pa­nies out there to try and scam customers.

    I would sug­gest mak­ing com­plaints to the bet­ter busi­ness bureau, con­sumer affairs, and even the state attor­ney general’s office.

    We apol­o­gize for the inconvenience.

    For the future please pur­chase our prod­ucts from only the autho­rized deal­ers, which you can find a list of on our web­site, http://www.sigmaphoto.com under the where to buy section.

    Best regards,

    Desiree Gaige
    Cus­tomer service/technical assis­tance
    Sigma Corp of Amer­ica
    15 Fleet­wood Court
    Ronkonkoma, NY 11779
    631–585-1144
    631–585-1895 Fax
    dgaige@sigmaphoto.com

    http://www.sigmaphoto.com

    ——————————————————————————–

    From: xxxxxxxxxx
    Sent: Wednes­day, May 21, 2008 9:59 PM
    To: info@sigmaphoto.com
    Sub­ject: Sigma 18-200mm f3.5–6.3 DC OS BEING SOLD AS A KNOCK-OFF AT http://WWW.SONICCAMERAS.COM

    Sigma: Since I have used your prod­ucts for years and trust and respect them and the com­pany I think you should know that an online cam­era store is sell­ing what I believe is NOT real Sigma lenses. I ordered and received a Sigma 18-200mm lens from http://www.soniccameras.com and the lens was made out of rather cheap mate­r­ial. It was most notice­able. Also, the lens did not fit on the new Nikon D80 I bought for my sis­ter. The cap said it was for Nikon but the fit sug­gested that it was not. The lens also made odd grind­ing noises when tele­scop­ing and was dif­fi­cult to use. I believe this was NOT one of your prod­ucts but a con­ter­feit or grey mar­ket prod­uct. I do not have proof except for my own expe­ri­ence using Sigma prod­ucts.
    I strongly sug­gest that you check into this online cam­era store as there have been many, many com­plaints about them and their poor qual­ity prod­ucts. Now, how would that be pos­si­ble if they are sell­ing from Sigma, Nikon, Cannon?

    For more infor­ma­tion on this store see http://www.soniccamerassuck.com/Welcome.html. This site pro­vides a great deal of data, rather dis­trubring data, on this online store. I am sure you do NOT want to be asso­ci­ated with this type of scam oper­a­tion. How­ever, when a scam oper­a­tion online store does “sell” your prod­ucts, YOU look bad. If I did not know that Sigma was the high­est qual­ity out there, hav­ing bought from this scam online store, I would have just assumed that you made poor qual­ity prod­ucts. Not fair to you all.

  2. Sharon, thank you for your reply. I have a lot of respect for Sigma prod­ucts and have quite a few lenses myself. I wasn’t aware some­one else wrote you con­cern­ing Son­ic­cam­eras until now, but I am glad that you found this web­site as it will hope­fully serve to inform con­sumers about these scammers.

    A lot of neg­a­tive arti­cles has been writ­ten con­cern­ing Son­ic­cam­eras and their prac­tices. This isn’t a small-time scam­mer by any means — this web­site is really doing con­sid­er­able dam­age to the indus­try. If you just take the time to inves­ti­gate a bit more, you will see what we mean.

    Many of us have taken as much action as pos­si­ble to put an end to their prac­tice or at least raise aware­ness amongst con­sumers. Unfor­tu­nately, most of the time our words fall on deaf ears. I think as Sigma is one of the major play­ers in the indus­try, it would be extremely help­ful if they could assist us fur­ther in this fight as your words carry a lot of weight.

    Thank you,

    Charles

    Update — I just got off the phone with Sigma and they men­tioned that they are well-aware of the com­plaints. They also ask for peo­ple to send in their receipts (although I doubt if you get one) to them. I gather that they are tak­ing all their receipts to their attorneys.

    How­ever, this is con­tin­u­ing on an on-going basis and there doesn’t seem to be a stop to it. Their rep­re­sen­ta­tive asked me to men­tion to tell peo­ple to for­ward their com­plaints to the agen­cies which we’ve listed in this post, in par­tic­u­lar the FBI’s IC3 web­site: http://www.ic3.gov

  3. Thank you for doing what you can. When I called them to “con­firm” my order (which I know NOW that is their sig­na­ture scam tech­nique) they took advan­tage of the fact that I don’t know much about cam­era equip­ment (I sup­pose they can eas­ily tell by ‘test­ing’ my knowl­edge about cam­era lens specs by way of a nor­mal con­ver­sa­tion). At the time, I believed (stu­pidly) that “Edward” was try­ing to help me find a bet­ter choice for what I need. And I got pres­sured into agree­ing to get some­thing other than I ordered for $300 more. When I asked about a return pol­icy, he told me I had seven days to return it but failed to men­tioned on the phone that there is a ‘min­i­mum 10% restock­ing fee’ which I found later on their site. I called back to can­cel, but they told me that it was already shipped. The receipt did not have item­ized prod­uct list. Any­way, I spent the rest of the day feel­ing queasy and sick that I did some­thing so stu­pid. I can­celled my credit card and got fraud pro­tec­tion, which I’m glad I did. I’m going to file a dis­pute with my credit card com­pany for this trans­ac­tion as soon as it posts. Damn them for scam­ming so many peo­ple!!!! I will file a com­plaint about Sonic Cam­eras whereever I can, so thanks for pro­vid­ing such info…and I really am sorry you fell into their trap, as I did. And all I wanted to do was to get a nice lens to pho­to­graph my two pre­cious chil­dren on their Dis­ney Cruise trip.

  4. Photo Dynasty / enterprisephoto.com is also oper­ated by the scum at Sonic Cam­eras. Warn­ing! Do NOT buy any­thing from the above web­sites or you will be scammed. Alert the FBI with all of the known site names for this com­pany so that the FBI can keep track cor­rectly and inves­ti­gate and put these thieves in jail where they belong. http://www.soniccameras.com is http://www.photodynasty.com and http://www.enterprisephoto.com.
    Do NOT buy from these web­sites. Stick to the well knowns.

  5. BEWARE!!! I fell for Sonic Cam­eras bait and switch scam and was screwed big time!! They are hor­ri­ble peo­ple!! They sent me the wrong lens on pur­pose and tried to tell me I was get­ting a great deal, know­ing they were screw­ing me. I finally had to get very aggres­sive and rude with them and we ended up in a sream­ing match. The guy told me to shut the hell up and that I was a stu­pid bitch and to keep quite about this whole ordeal and he would refund my money!!! Are you kid­ding me?? I got my money back and now I’m try­ing to spread the word! STAY AWAY!!!

  6. I too have fell for Sonic Cam­eras “low prices” when I ordered a Canon 17-85mmIS USM . I also got the email say­ing to call to con­firm order and then tricked me into upgrad­ing some­thing that didn’t need it and spend­ing more cash. Now, a cou­ple of months later my lens will no longer aut­o­fo­cus past around 60mm and they will not return any emails I send and you just get put on hold with stu­pid music when you try to call. Wish I would’ve checked them out before I ordered.

  7. I nearly got scewed by these bas­tards. I ordered the Canon 70-200mm2.8 IS USM lens. Received an email immidi­ately con­firm­ing my order but oddly no online emailed receipt which is usu­ally stan­dard prac­tice when order­ing. Waited for my lens to arrive. Noth­ing. Got a phone call from a num­ber I didn’t recognize…didn’t answer it. 3 days later gotta another call from same num­ber. I answer it to find out who it is assum­ing it has to do with my lens. I was right. He was call­ing to con­firm the order so he could ship it but needed to con­firm the secu­rity code. I said that they didn’t ask for it on the web­site and I didn’t feel com­fort­able giv­ing that over the phone. He said “fine. to ver­ify I’m from Sonic, call up the cus­tomer ser­vice line, it’ll say we’re closed…but we’re not. I’m still here. Just punch in ext. 229.’. I did so and then stu­pidly and against my instincts gave him my secu­rity code info. Long story short, he tried to up sell me on a ‘new Sigma’ lens that was listed for $1999.00 for $1200. I later researched that lens and it sells for $650 at B&H. I wouldn’t let him con­firm my order till I researched the lens and every­thing else he was pitch­ing me…meanwhile being very rude say­ing “he tired and has to go home and to do what I want but ‘this’ is what I should do…and offer­ing me a TON of stuff for free to be included with the order to get me to con­firm the sale. Any­how, I told him I would call him back via that exten­sion so he got the comms­sion (after he said he didn’t care if he got the com­mis­sion as he had 100’s of order’s to fulfill…after just say­ing I needed to make the des­i­cion now cause he didn’t want to lose the com­mis­sion) Crazy pres­sure sales. I got off the phone with a promise to call him back tomor­row and thank­fully found all this neg­a­tive stuff about that place. Imme­di­ately called my credit card com­pany (they hadn’t charged me yet for some rea­son thank­fully) and blocked/canceled my card and got a new one issued. Phew. What a SCAM! That was a crazy expe­ri­ence. lol I’ve never been treated so rudely by a cus­tomer ser­vice rep…and now I know why.

  8. Why can’t the FBI just try and pur­chase one piece of equip­ment from them? It would be the eas­i­est under­cover oper­a­tion EVER and it would be sweet revenge when they real­ized they were try­ing to bully and under­cover agent.

    Great job on this. Another ques­tions I have is where this money is going? This scam is so shady, I wouldn’t be shocked to find out that it’s the front-end of a scam to send money to ter­ror­ists. A few years back there was a char­ity (in NY, I think) that was busted for col­lect­ing dona­tions and then chan­nel­ing the money out to ter­ror­ist groups. Could this be the same thing?

  9. My apolo­gies for not get­ting back sooner. This blog has been in neglect recently as I’ve been busy with other real life things to deal with. I keep promis­ing that I will either revamp the site or sim­ply, post more often.

    Well, I like you can’t under­stand why it’s so dif­fi­cult for the FBI to nail a com­pany when it seems appar­ent that this is not an iso­lated inci­dent. And that’s part of the rea­son why I made this post. My inten­tions are to help peo­ple — hope­fully they spend time googling the com­pany before wast­ing their time and money.

    As for send­ing money to ter­ror­ists — that actu­ally crossed my mind as well. But hon­estly, there’s enough crooks in this world and not every­one is affil­i­ated with those orga­ni­za­tions either. You never really know — but either way thei actions are wrong and deceitful.

  10. It is also pos­si­ble that they are using the store as a front for get­ting credit card infor­ma­tion and then sell­ing it or using the cards months down the line. They may also be using the store to laun­der money. Or, they are just crooks, plain and sim­ple.
    I too do NOT under­stand WHY they have not been shut down yet. It may well be that there is some­thing big­ger going on with them and the FBI, etc. may be work­ing behind the scenes gath­er­ing up far more impor­tant infor­ma­tion on them. WHO KNOWS??
    But the sad part is that they are still out there, steal­ing from the hon­est and trust­ing. The best we can all do is to report to all author­i­ties if we have been scammed, call the credit card com­pany and tell THEM what’s going on so they catch on to trends in their fraud depart­ments, can­cel the card (I fer­vently believe this is nec­es­sary now), and use the Inter­net to spread the word on scum­bags like these peo­ple. The num­ber of hits on the Inter­net against them is mind-boggling.
    So soon, I expect that they will go down for some­thing. Soon.

  11. i think google should also be tak­ing some respon­si­bil­ity and keep them off the top of the list and off google stores. i know its hard to block all scam­mers but with all these upset peo­ple, its kind of obvious.

  12. well, 7 months after can­cel­ing the order from Sonic and can­cel­ing my credit card I am now being har­rassed by a col­lec­tion agency for the $50 restock­ing fee that Sonic is try­ing to charge me for. UGH!!! will it ever end??

  13. Tell them that you have your pre­vi­ous phone con­ver­sa­tions tape recorded because it’s legal to do that in your state and that you have sub­mit­ted it to your lawyer who is ready to build a case against them. Then tell their “col­lec­tion agency” (I bet they’re bluff­ing) to con­tact your lawyer directly. They get real scared when you men­tion lawyer. That’s basi­cally what I did and they left me alone. BASTARDS!!

  14. It appears that after a lit­tle over a year, that their web­site is now finally down for the count — all it says on their home­page is a con­tact email. I am glad that we were all able to inform the com­mu­nity as to their decep­tive prac­tices. But I also have to won­der, just because this one web­site is now gone if they’ve sim­ply posted another.

    I’ve learned my les­son when it comes to equip­ment — only trust and try to research rep­utable deal­ers online.

    Hope­fully they got what they finally deserved — jail time… Thanks to every­one for con­tribut­ing to this post.

  15. BRAVO!!! I was just think­ing about them a few days ago and had noticed that I had not received any AMAZON.COM alerts on my alert for SONICCAMERAS.COM. I thought that maybe, just maybe, some legal author­ity finally got to them.
    We ALL need to con­tinue to watch and report on other scam web­sites like the Son­ic­cam­eras scum. They may well pop up again with a dif­fer­ent name or even dif­fer­ent prod­ucts. So, buyer beware as usual. But, let us hope that these scum­bags are in jail for a good long time. I don’t know how many com­plaints I filed with every Fed­eral, State and Con­sumer entity out there. But maybe all of our com­plaints to the author­i­ties and the credit card com­pa­nies might have taken them down.
    Good work Cleo!!!!! Thanks!

  16. Their other known web­sites are also down: http://www.soniccameras.com is http://www.photodynasty.com and http://www.enterprisephoto.com.

  17. They must have been fear­ful of some­thing or some­one really did get into trou­ble. Or, it could have sim­ply been that enough peo­ple said enough bad things about them that they decided it wasn’t worth the efforts. Per­son­ally, I think they were prob­a­bly rolling in money so some­thing “bad” must have hap­pened to them.

    Either way, I don’t think we will ever know what was the real out­come of this story. I wish we did — I can’t find the owner’s name. I recall some­one know­ing it — per­haps a Google search will turn up some more recent results?

  18. Some­one did track the name down. I believe it was somethng like George Sabato, but I could be wrong. But you know hav­ing a name means noth­ing when you can put down any name. I would love to know what hap­pened to them but I too believe we will prob­a­bly never know. I hope they are in jail. But for now, they are seem­ingly gone. Again, we need to be on guard as they may be cool­ing it and will come back with a whole dif­fer­ent type of site, prod­ucts, etc. So brazen and rude they all were. Amaz­ing. Cheers — S.